Grokgod
Jul 28, 06:52 PM
Well we all know how Apple works with when things are due.
Look at the G5 laptop.
Tweak or no tweak, the return will cost money and getting a refurbished is not getting a new one.
CounterPoint: If he is just going to take it back to buy a refurbished one, why take it back.
He allready has it! Thats a roundabout way to work, isnt it?
If you take it back, you wait for the new one, why spend the money for restocking and not get the new one?
The question remains, what are you going to get with a new iMac that you dont have now?
If you were going to get a MacPro, then I would say, my god, return that iMac and get a new MacPro, if not then keep what you got and use it for the next 2 months and enjoy it,, cheers!
Look at the G5 laptop.
Tweak or no tweak, the return will cost money and getting a refurbished is not getting a new one.
CounterPoint: If he is just going to take it back to buy a refurbished one, why take it back.
He allready has it! Thats a roundabout way to work, isnt it?
If you take it back, you wait for the new one, why spend the money for restocking and not get the new one?
The question remains, what are you going to get with a new iMac that you dont have now?
If you were going to get a MacPro, then I would say, my god, return that iMac and get a new MacPro, if not then keep what you got and use it for the next 2 months and enjoy it,, cheers!
Macsterguy
Mar 26, 04:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mL1k4Zwf1I
andrewfee
Aug 26, 05:38 AM
Apple support in the UK is terrible. :( When I had an iMac G5 (Rev.A) I had no end of problems and was without the machine for at least 2-3 months. (which actually cost me some work, as I had just started to do some web design for a local business)
After 5 faults (the last two being it coming back from repair with a damaged screen and a dead hard drive) I eventually convinced them to replace it, but rather than getting another iMac, I figured I'd go for a "safe" option and go for a Rev.D Powerbook as I figured they would have sorted out all the faults. Now, to be fair, I did get a maxed out 17" one as compensation (although they screwed that up and I had to get the RAM sent out separately and fit it myself) but I'd rather have had a perfectly working iMac.
Not much with the Powerbook either though - I had a dead sound board within a couple of weeks of owning it (which meant I was without it for a week or so) and I've now been without the proper use of it for two months again. When it came back from service the first time after being "fixed" it had this:
http://static.flickr.com/61/200198290_8368452c2c.jpg
I've had an iSkin cover on it from day one, so it couldn't have been caused by me (see the next pic) and other than a hairline scratch next to the trackpad (you can't even see it in the photo) it was perfect - it hasn't even been out of my house. Not the first scratched machine I've had either. (if I remember correctly, the first Powerbook was scratched out of the box)
The screen brightness wasn't fixed either, they just disabled my calibrated profile, which gets back maybe 5cd/m2:
http://static.flickr.com/64/200198281_9d631b8680.jpg
As you can see, it used to be quite good:
http://static.flickr.com/56/130208615_cb043ed264.jpg
They replaced the main logic board, but the buzzing that started (and it makes "chirping" noises when running iMovie) is still there.
Funnily enough, as soon as I called to complain, they got the part in the next day (or so they claim) and have said I should have it back next week. I've been told to call up again next Thursday - if I have it back (and working!) by then, I'll be entitled to some kind of compensation, if not, then they'll sort out a replacement machine.
For �280 I'm appalled at the level of service.
I've had far more downtime since switching to a Mac than any other computer - back when I had a store-bought PC years ago from somewhere local, I was without it maybe for a week over a period of several years. When I started building my own machines (at least 5/6 years ago now) that was down to a matter of days. (I could either pick up the parts locally the same day, or order online with next-day shipping)
Since buying the first iMac G5 (got one the day they were available, if I remember correctly) it must have been at least 4-6 months I've been without my computer now. (right now I'm now back to using an old PC I've built from spare parts - but there are at least two parts on their way out - keeps crashing and sometimes refuses to boot, but I'm not going to be buying more hardware for it, unless Apple want to pay the bill)
It probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that I'm disabled, and my only real contact with the "outside world" and friends is via the internet.
I absolutely love the OS, and Apple's software, and the hardware is fantastic when it works, but I'm having doubts as to whether my next machine will be from them or not. (realistically, I don't think I could drop OSX for Windows, but I can't believe how unreliable these things are)
At least they're not as bad as Samsung though - they had my two-month-old LCD HDTV in repair for over four months (the store said I had to wait for the repair to be done and get them the TV back to get a refund) which left me with a 14" Portable CRT during that time, and when I eventually did get it back, it went up in smoke as soon as I plugged it in and turned it on - literally! :eek:
After 5 faults (the last two being it coming back from repair with a damaged screen and a dead hard drive) I eventually convinced them to replace it, but rather than getting another iMac, I figured I'd go for a "safe" option and go for a Rev.D Powerbook as I figured they would have sorted out all the faults. Now, to be fair, I did get a maxed out 17" one as compensation (although they screwed that up and I had to get the RAM sent out separately and fit it myself) but I'd rather have had a perfectly working iMac.
Not much with the Powerbook either though - I had a dead sound board within a couple of weeks of owning it (which meant I was without it for a week or so) and I've now been without the proper use of it for two months again. When it came back from service the first time after being "fixed" it had this:
http://static.flickr.com/61/200198290_8368452c2c.jpg
I've had an iSkin cover on it from day one, so it couldn't have been caused by me (see the next pic) and other than a hairline scratch next to the trackpad (you can't even see it in the photo) it was perfect - it hasn't even been out of my house. Not the first scratched machine I've had either. (if I remember correctly, the first Powerbook was scratched out of the box)
The screen brightness wasn't fixed either, they just disabled my calibrated profile, which gets back maybe 5cd/m2:
http://static.flickr.com/64/200198281_9d631b8680.jpg
As you can see, it used to be quite good:
http://static.flickr.com/56/130208615_cb043ed264.jpg
They replaced the main logic board, but the buzzing that started (and it makes "chirping" noises when running iMovie) is still there.
Funnily enough, as soon as I called to complain, they got the part in the next day (or so they claim) and have said I should have it back next week. I've been told to call up again next Thursday - if I have it back (and working!) by then, I'll be entitled to some kind of compensation, if not, then they'll sort out a replacement machine.
For �280 I'm appalled at the level of service.
I've had far more downtime since switching to a Mac than any other computer - back when I had a store-bought PC years ago from somewhere local, I was without it maybe for a week over a period of several years. When I started building my own machines (at least 5/6 years ago now) that was down to a matter of days. (I could either pick up the parts locally the same day, or order online with next-day shipping)
Since buying the first iMac G5 (got one the day they were available, if I remember correctly) it must have been at least 4-6 months I've been without my computer now. (right now I'm now back to using an old PC I've built from spare parts - but there are at least two parts on their way out - keeps crashing and sometimes refuses to boot, but I'm not going to be buying more hardware for it, unless Apple want to pay the bill)
It probably wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that I'm disabled, and my only real contact with the "outside world" and friends is via the internet.
I absolutely love the OS, and Apple's software, and the hardware is fantastic when it works, but I'm having doubts as to whether my next machine will be from them or not. (realistically, I don't think I could drop OSX for Windows, but I can't believe how unreliable these things are)
At least they're not as bad as Samsung though - they had my two-month-old LCD HDTV in repair for over four months (the store said I had to wait for the repair to be done and get them the TV back to get a refund) which left me with a 14" Portable CRT during that time, and when I eventually did get it back, it went up in smoke as soon as I plugged it in and turned it on - literally! :eek:
Piggie
Apr 8, 07:13 AM
I don't know if anyone has explained Best Buy's actions at all and why they would hold back on selling stock the have yet.
I run a branch for a construction supply company and am judged based on daily and monthly goals.
It doesn't matter if I do three times my monthly goal this month if I don't hit goal at all next month. It doesn't make sense but it is the way business works. I have held orders that come in at the end of the month for the beginning of the next if I have already hit this month's goal so that I get a head start on next month's.
For the manager at Best Buy he probably felt that it served him better to the corporate big wigs if he hit his goal every day rather than pass his goal one day and not reach it the next.
Is it best for the COMPANY or for the CONSUMER? No... But in this world of sales and numbers managers tend to do what will make their bosses happy, which is to make sure that when they check the numbers on the spreadsheet every day they hit their numbers and don't get yelled at.
100% agree with you and people need to realise how stupid people high up the ladder are, and out of touch with reality with these things, which then cause the behaviour you have explained to happen.
Actually by selling more than your expected quota this month may even end up with your expected quota being increased for future months.
Effectively shooting yourself in the foot.
To put it in it's simplest form, say someone paid you $5 to walk to the shops and buy them a pizza, and give you 15 mins for the journey. You go the task, get your $5 dollars and everyone is happy.
Now, once you decide to jog a little and arrive back in 10 mins, wow that's great, so much quicker. but from now on, will will only allow you 11 mins to get the pizza for the $5 payment.
Then you are silly enough to run a little one day and come back in just 5 mins, wow, this is an improvement. Head office have now decided to allow you 6 mins to perform the task for your $5.
How stupid are you, when you could have been walking all this time and still of had your original 15mins for your $5 payment.
Perhaps you could of run in just 5 mins, but you really should of stopped and chatted to someone for 10 mins to use your allowed time up.
I run a branch for a construction supply company and am judged based on daily and monthly goals.
It doesn't matter if I do three times my monthly goal this month if I don't hit goal at all next month. It doesn't make sense but it is the way business works. I have held orders that come in at the end of the month for the beginning of the next if I have already hit this month's goal so that I get a head start on next month's.
For the manager at Best Buy he probably felt that it served him better to the corporate big wigs if he hit his goal every day rather than pass his goal one day and not reach it the next.
Is it best for the COMPANY or for the CONSUMER? No... But in this world of sales and numbers managers tend to do what will make their bosses happy, which is to make sure that when they check the numbers on the spreadsheet every day they hit their numbers and don't get yelled at.
100% agree with you and people need to realise how stupid people high up the ladder are, and out of touch with reality with these things, which then cause the behaviour you have explained to happen.
Actually by selling more than your expected quota this month may even end up with your expected quota being increased for future months.
Effectively shooting yourself in the foot.
To put it in it's simplest form, say someone paid you $5 to walk to the shops and buy them a pizza, and give you 15 mins for the journey. You go the task, get your $5 dollars and everyone is happy.
Now, once you decide to jog a little and arrive back in 10 mins, wow that's great, so much quicker. but from now on, will will only allow you 11 mins to get the pizza for the $5 payment.
Then you are silly enough to run a little one day and come back in just 5 mins, wow, this is an improvement. Head office have now decided to allow you 6 mins to perform the task for your $5.
How stupid are you, when you could have been walking all this time and still of had your original 15mins for your $5 payment.
Perhaps you could of run in just 5 mins, but you really should of stopped and chatted to someone for 10 mins to use your allowed time up.
mr.steevo
Apr 27, 10:05 AM
I don't understand politics. Your economy is sinking, unemployment rates are high, real estate prices have collapsed, gasoline prices are spiking. The world is wondering if this is the end of America's super status and there is more concern over a birth certificate issue that was put to bed 3 years ago.??
From where I'm standing the US is in serious financial trouble based on the decisions of previous governments and the current government is left cleaning it up. This is the worst time for the left and right to be bickering about such pettiness as a slow economic fall is becoming inevitable. This is like watching two officers argue about who gets to lower the lifeboats while the Titanic is sinking.
From where I'm standing the US is in serious financial trouble based on the decisions of previous governments and the current government is left cleaning it up. This is the worst time for the left and right to be bickering about such pettiness as a slow economic fall is becoming inevitable. This is like watching two officers argue about who gets to lower the lifeboats while the Titanic is sinking.
iFry
Jul 31, 12:28 PM
Sure, it may be more expensive than a custom-built Intel machine, but it will run OS X like a charm, and that's ultimately the most important factor in my computer purchase. But access to Windows games and Mac OS X, that's a dream come true for this mac fanatic. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that virtualization makes big enough strides that I never have to leave OS X to play Windows-based games.
my thoughts exactly... MacBook Pro in two weeks :D
wish i had that Core 2 goin in it...
my thoughts exactly... MacBook Pro in two weeks :D
wish i had that Core 2 goin in it...
timmillwood
Aug 26, 05:43 PM
I hope we see a core 2 duo in the macbook pro to get it upto the speed of the mac pro
shamino
Jul 22, 12:18 PM
So I read in this thread that Kentsfield and Clovertown ARE compatible with Conroe and Woodcrest sockets (respectively) (Cloverton or Clovertown?)
Well, people here have mentioned it. I haven't seen any sources for these claims, however.
It's worth noting that the Pentium 4 shipped in several different socket packages over the years. The fact that the cores might be electrically compatible does not necessarily mean you're going to be able to perform a chip-swap upgrade on your Mac!
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
And assuming they don't solder the chip to the motherboard, or hardwire the clock-multiplier chips, or hard-wire the voltage regulator settings, etc.
There are a lot of things that can be done to a motherboard to make these kinds of upgrades painful or even impossible.
With any kind of rumor like this, "I'll believe it when I see it" should be your mantra. Sure, these kinds of upgrades would be great, and it may even be possible to perform them on generic PC motherbaords, but this doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy or even possible on the systems Apple ends up shipping.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed.
"Never" is always too strong a word. But there are plenty of good reasons to say "useless for today's applications" or "not worth the cost".
When applications start demanding more, and when costs come down, then the equations change. As they always do.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to)...
You're looking forward to this? Let's hope for your sake that Microsoft has nothing to do with the system software.
I don't think it will be possible, even in 40 years, despite what sci-fi authors are predicting. And there's no way I'd ever have such a system installed even if it would be come possible. The possibility of dying or becoming comatose, or even worse, as a result of a software glitch is something I'm not going to allow. To quote McCoy from Star Trek: "Let's see how it scrambles your molecules first."
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
But do you want to be the first person to have to pay for it?
Well, people here have mentioned it. I haven't seen any sources for these claims, however.
It's worth noting that the Pentium 4 shipped in several different socket packages over the years. The fact that the cores might be electrically compatible does not necessarily mean you're going to be able to perform a chip-swap upgrade on your Mac!
Hope for upgrading an iMac to Quad Core is kindled! At least if Apple releases Conroe iMacs.
And assuming they don't solder the chip to the motherboard, or hardwire the clock-multiplier chips, or hard-wire the voltage regulator settings, etc.
There are a lot of things that can be done to a motherboard to make these kinds of upgrades painful or even impossible.
With any kind of rumor like this, "I'll believe it when I see it" should be your mantra. Sure, these kinds of upgrades would be great, and it may even be possible to perform them on generic PC motherbaords, but this doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy or even possible on the systems Apple ends up shipping.
BTW, In my opinion, one thing a person should never, ever say is some computer has too much power, and that it will never be needed.
"Never" is always too strong a word. But there are plenty of good reasons to say "useless for today's applications" or "not worth the cost".
When applications start demanding more, and when costs come down, then the equations change. As they always do.
When we will be able to download our entire lives, and even conciousness into a computer, as is said to happen in about 40 years (very much looking forward to)...
You're looking forward to this? Let's hope for your sake that Microsoft has nothing to do with the system software.
I don't think it will be possible, even in 40 years, despite what sci-fi authors are predicting. And there's no way I'd ever have such a system installed even if it would be come possible. The possibility of dying or becoming comatose, or even worse, as a result of a software glitch is something I'm not going to allow. To quote McCoy from Star Trek: "Let's see how it scrambles your molecules first."
So as a conclusion to my most recent rant, Please, never tell me a computer is too powerfu, has too many cores, or has too much storage capacity. If it is there to be used, it will be used. It always is.
But do you want to be the first person to have to pay for it?
Jon'sLightBulbs
Aug 26, 04:08 PM
You're screwing up, intel. We don't want 300 trillion transistors on a 1 nm die. We want longer battery life. Idiots.
cheekyspanky
Aug 11, 06:47 PM
wooooo
yea! i was gonna buy the Sony K800 but now i'll wait a bit longer if the iPhone is really coming out casue i want one!
The K800 battery life is rubbish I've found, I wouldn't particularly recommend one, same with the K610i.
I guess this phone will be sold directly though Apple, as it would take months for the mobile phone networks to take a new handset through all the internal testing stages.
I've never paid for a phone up til now (as is the case with most UK residents I'd assume) so it would be an impressive feat if Apple can persuade people in this type of marketplace to actually put their hands in their pockets for a phone.
yea! i was gonna buy the Sony K800 but now i'll wait a bit longer if the iPhone is really coming out casue i want one!
The K800 battery life is rubbish I've found, I wouldn't particularly recommend one, same with the K610i.
I guess this phone will be sold directly though Apple, as it would take months for the mobile phone networks to take a new handset through all the internal testing stages.
I've never paid for a phone up til now (as is the case with most UK residents I'd assume) so it would be an impressive feat if Apple can persuade people in this type of marketplace to actually put their hands in their pockets for a phone.
jonnysods
Apr 6, 10:44 AM
Sign me up for this please!!!
Macnoviz
Jul 21, 02:22 AM
<offtopic>
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
-Macnoviz
Woah. Well, there's more than raw computing involved there, there is context for the computer to understand. What is the "sun" what does "Dominant" really mean? What are power lines? What does "remove" really mean? And let's not go into what kind of DB would be needed to describe all of the differences a person's face exhibits over a lifetime!
I'm sure we'll get there and such 'life' DB's built I hope there is a standard set! Who says we don't need this really big drives!
That's where the internet comes in. Of course, it's a pipe dream, at least for the next thirthy years. But who knows, maybe some day they will unleash a web crawler with a rough AI onto the internet to soak up all information, thus creating one superbrain, connected to the internet. Isaac Asimov anyone?
That would require Artificial Intelligence. If a computer can understand your speech, recognise your choice of words and understands that you don't neccessarily mean what you say all the time, then that's AI. If it can recognise specific objects in an "analogue" media such as a photograph, (I don't care if its a digital photo or not), it's AI. If it can then implement what it has learned alongside its infinite computational precision to remake a photo, while keeping it completely realistic, and making it look exactly how we wanted it to look, that's amazing, and lots of people will be out of jobs.
-Macnoviz
Woah. Well, there's more than raw computing involved there, there is context for the computer to understand. What is the "sun" what does "Dominant" really mean? What are power lines? What does "remove" really mean? And let's not go into what kind of DB would be needed to describe all of the differences a person's face exhibits over a lifetime!
I'm sure we'll get there and such 'life' DB's built I hope there is a standard set! Who says we don't need this really big drives!
That's where the internet comes in. Of course, it's a pipe dream, at least for the next thirthy years. But who knows, maybe some day they will unleash a web crawler with a rough AI onto the internet to soak up all information, thus creating one superbrain, connected to the internet. Isaac Asimov anyone?
DocNo
Apr 11, 10:06 AM
I still think tape cameras are the best in quality, but the practicality of recording on a card or a hard drive will soon beat that.
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
I think Apple's timing with tomorrow is perfect for them to capitalize on this. If you watched the first two clips, the panelists talked about the lack of real standards for data and more importantly meta-data for file based workflows. They also referenced the only factory in the world that produces the most commonly used tape in pro workflow as being wiped out by the Tsunami in Japan - if Apple follows up with a new standard for file based workflow (which I fully expect them to do - skating to where the puck will be - it's a no brainer) and with Thunderbolt and a few manufacturers ready to capitalize it, I think you could see a dramatic shift in workflow since the tape situation will get dire for many. As one of the panelists pointed out, people aren't going to stop creating content just because they can't get more tape.
This might be the external catalyst that causes a dramatic shift. They are rare, but they do happen and events certainly seem to be lining up!
(I can't wait for the eventual conspiracy theorists that will no doubt claim SJ engineered the Tsunami in order to take advantage of it :rolleyes: )
gnasher729
Aug 17, 03:42 AM
I think movie editing depends a lot on the speed of the disk subsystem. After all Mini DV is 12GB per hour. That's a of data. When yo "scrub" a shot all that data has to move off the disk and onto the video card. Even with 16MB of RAM not much of the video data can be help in RAM. So the G5 and Intel machine have disks that are about the same speed. Speed of a disk is measured by how fast the bit fly under the read/write head not the interface speed. So I am not surprized the Intel Mac Pro is not hugly faster for video.
Mini DV is 3,600,000 bytes per second. That is nothing. That is just slightly above what a wireless network will do.
Mini DV is 3,600,000 bytes per second. That is nothing. That is just slightly above what a wireless network will do.
blahblah100
Mar 31, 03:54 PM
It's because of the Buy One Get One option. Nothing more. People choose that option because it makes financial sense and if they don't really care about the OS or the phone, they will choose the one that fits their check books. If Apple was to OK ATT and VZ to do a Buy One Get One on the iPhone, there would be no comparison. It would be game over for Android.
-LanPhantom
Ironically, most of the people on this forum said iPhone on Verizon would be game over for Android.
This 'game over for Android' reminds me a lot of the 'this is the year of desktop linux' stuff that has been said every year for the last 9.
-LanPhantom
Ironically, most of the people on this forum said iPhone on Verizon would be game over for Android.
This 'game over for Android' reminds me a lot of the 'this is the year of desktop linux' stuff that has been said every year for the last 9.
amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Chundles
Jul 20, 08:36 AM
The Mactopus??
Notice time. I bags it, I said it first, it's MINE!!!
My only...
My Mactopus...
Notice time. I bags it, I said it first, it's MINE!!!
My only...
My Mactopus...
JS77
Mar 26, 08:23 AM
I'm really not looking forward to Lion at all. It just seems like a huge step backwards for those of us that use our computers as real computers and not toys. I have an ipad, an iphone and several macs, but they each have specific uses. I don't want my desktop machine to be anything like my ipad, one is for doing real work and doing my daily stuff on, the iOS gadgets are for fun games and browsing mostly.
I LOATH the whole idea of merging OSX and iOS, they shouldn't even be related. I hate how they are ruining expose, I really don't want my stuff groups by app, I want to see every window like it is now. I have no use for "full screen" apps, why would I waste all my screen real estate only showing one thing at a time? I hate the idea of getting programs through the app store on the Mac, I refuse to do that. I hate all the gesture crap going on, sure it's fine for laptop users, but it's of no use to me on my mac pro.
I think all this is just a dumbing down of what is an amazing OS. I don't use my mac with dual displays anything like I'd use an iPad, so why put that crap in there? I just don't like the direction they are taking OSX in general, and I doubt I will upgrade from snow leopard. To me this is very sad news, the day OSX and iOS merge is the day the mac dies.
110% with you buddy.
I LOATH the whole idea of merging OSX and iOS, they shouldn't even be related. I hate how they are ruining expose, I really don't want my stuff groups by app, I want to see every window like it is now. I have no use for "full screen" apps, why would I waste all my screen real estate only showing one thing at a time? I hate the idea of getting programs through the app store on the Mac, I refuse to do that. I hate all the gesture crap going on, sure it's fine for laptop users, but it's of no use to me on my mac pro.
I think all this is just a dumbing down of what is an amazing OS. I don't use my mac with dual displays anything like I'd use an iPad, so why put that crap in there? I just don't like the direction they are taking OSX in general, and I doubt I will upgrade from snow leopard. To me this is very sad news, the day OSX and iOS merge is the day the mac dies.
110% with you buddy.
marksman
Mar 31, 04:57 PM
Only if you do not add products like the iPad and the iPod Touch. In other words, if you throw out 50% of the iOS products.
I would add I never understand the comparison of Smartphones running Android to smartphones running IOS.
Neither Google or Apple sell their phone operating systems, and the Android spectrum is made up of 50 handsets from 10 different manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other. They are not one big group working together to take on Apple. It makes absolutely zero sense to make that kind of comparison.
It is just as weird as loping off iPod and iPad IOS users...
If people want to compare smartphones, then compare actual sales of individual smartphones, each which only use one OS. People should not draw meaningless lines in the sand lumping all android based handsets together, because they are not together other than they run android. They might as well compare black phones to white phones.
I imagine if you made a chart of the top selling smartphones in the last 5 years, it would consist of the iPhone 4, the iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 3G and the iPhone.
Why not group smartphones by what kind of graphics chip they have or what type of memory chip they use? The OS is irrelevant. Nobody in the smartphone business is directly making money off any of these oses, it is a stupid way to categorize smart phones.
Of course it happens because if they didn't lump them together it would look absurd with Apple totally dominating the smart phone market with their latest phone every year while 100 android commodity phones all have tiny market shares just to get replaced by the next one.
How does HTC running android OS benefit or relate to a Motorola phone running android? It does not, at all.
I would add I never understand the comparison of Smartphones running Android to smartphones running IOS.
Neither Google or Apple sell their phone operating systems, and the Android spectrum is made up of 50 handsets from 10 different manufacturers who are in direct competition with each other. They are not one big group working together to take on Apple. It makes absolutely zero sense to make that kind of comparison.
It is just as weird as loping off iPod and iPad IOS users...
If people want to compare smartphones, then compare actual sales of individual smartphones, each which only use one OS. People should not draw meaningless lines in the sand lumping all android based handsets together, because they are not together other than they run android. They might as well compare black phones to white phones.
I imagine if you made a chart of the top selling smartphones in the last 5 years, it would consist of the iPhone 4, the iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 3G and the iPhone.
Why not group smartphones by what kind of graphics chip they have or what type of memory chip they use? The OS is irrelevant. Nobody in the smartphone business is directly making money off any of these oses, it is a stupid way to categorize smart phones.
Of course it happens because if they didn't lump them together it would look absurd with Apple totally dominating the smart phone market with their latest phone every year while 100 android commodity phones all have tiny market shares just to get replaced by the next one.
How does HTC running android OS benefit or relate to a Motorola phone running android? It does not, at all.
eMagius
Aug 7, 07:36 PM
As others have said, Time Machine is likely either a direct port of Sun's ZFS, or an equivalent implementation in HFS+.
I don't think we can say exactly how things work underneath. Windows 2003 offers differential snapshots without making massive changes to NTFS, for example. It would be neat if Apple did throw its weight behind ZFS, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen with 10.5.
According to today's keynote, Apple has finally added support for network drives. But I wonder -- does this mean only other Leopard Macs, or any shared drive that the Mac can connect to? Can I index a Windows shared drive from my Mac, or even a Unix NFS mount? Or is it only other Macs? Once again, if it's limited to other Leopard Macs, then this would be useless for a lot of people (mostly ME! :D).
I don't see how this would work for anything other than other Leopard (maybe Tiger, with a software update) Macs. Spotlight has to have the indexes pre-generated, after all.
Finally, gotta wonder what those "top secret" features are, and why so secret?
Call me a cynic, but I'd say Apple either hasn't implemented them yet or hasn't thought of them yet.
I don't think we can say exactly how things work underneath. Windows 2003 offers differential snapshots without making massive changes to NTFS, for example. It would be neat if Apple did throw its weight behind ZFS, but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen with 10.5.
According to today's keynote, Apple has finally added support for network drives. But I wonder -- does this mean only other Leopard Macs, or any shared drive that the Mac can connect to? Can I index a Windows shared drive from my Mac, or even a Unix NFS mount? Or is it only other Macs? Once again, if it's limited to other Leopard Macs, then this would be useless for a lot of people (mostly ME! :D).
I don't see how this would work for anything other than other Leopard (maybe Tiger, with a software update) Macs. Spotlight has to have the indexes pre-generated, after all.
Finally, gotta wonder what those "top secret" features are, and why so secret?
Call me a cynic, but I'd say Apple either hasn't implemented them yet or hasn't thought of them yet.
Gugulino
Apr 6, 03:29 AM
I hope that the new FCP will resemble iMovie: No need for rendering and a precision editor! I like the ease of use of iMovie, should be adopted by FCP.
maelstromr
Apr 19, 05:33 PM
Is that we here in ka world know our Apple products....
But out in the Minnesota farmlands.... They may not have seen the ads....
Met up with another farming buddy... A couple of beers.
Gone to a tech shop to buy a smartphone n thought through the beer bottle they bought themselves a samsung iPhone.
:rolleyes:
/sarcasm
So what's your point? The presence of competition does not harm a competitor? Seems contrary to that whole "competition" word.
And your next point is what? A successful company should allow a competitor to use it's technology/patents to compete with it? All at the same time as just taking it from all the competitors that sue Apple on the other companies' patents, right?
How many anti-Apple suing trolls here are also pro-other company suing Apple trolls in other threads?
So you don't like the way IP law works? Vote for someone who will change the legal structure. Until then, corporations are going to work in the environment your legislators and courts created. Hate the game, not the player.
But out in the Minnesota farmlands.... They may not have seen the ads....
Met up with another farming buddy... A couple of beers.
Gone to a tech shop to buy a smartphone n thought through the beer bottle they bought themselves a samsung iPhone.
:rolleyes:
/sarcasm
So what's your point? The presence of competition does not harm a competitor? Seems contrary to that whole "competition" word.
And your next point is what? A successful company should allow a competitor to use it's technology/patents to compete with it? All at the same time as just taking it from all the competitors that sue Apple on the other companies' patents, right?
How many anti-Apple suing trolls here are also pro-other company suing Apple trolls in other threads?
So you don't like the way IP law works? Vote for someone who will change the legal structure. Until then, corporations are going to work in the environment your legislators and courts created. Hate the game, not the player.
afrowq
Apr 11, 05:59 PM
Exactly. Apple has been neglecting its professional products since the iPhone and iOS release, and focusing on consumer level products. A lot of people on MacRumors are new to Mac/Apple. For those of us who have used Mac's for 10+ years, mostly for work, we have become weary of the direction the company is taking for US, not for the average Joe. FCP was a standard at the time, for less than its competitors it offered a great GUI at a reasonable price point. The hardware and software are business investments.
As for the sarcastic comment regarding someone not leaving Apple now before FCP is released, it's because leaving is a huge decision. We have lots of money, time and equipment invested in our work. It's not as simple as dropping everything you have used for many, many years and investing and training yourself for another platform.
Sorry, but I am tired of the new users brought in from iPhone's and iPods and MacBook's getting snarky with the professionals who carried Apple through tough times and rely on Apple's professional line for our work. First the dedicated ACD's are neglected and replaced with ONE 27" LED LCD panel from the 27" iMac, OS X Lion is morphing into an iOS GUI, the Xeon Server processors in the Mac Pro line that replaced the affordable PowerMac G4/5's are over priced and over powered for some of our needs, Xserve was dropped not due to less sales but less marketing and development due to Apple's focus on iDevices, less OS X development such as Resolution Independence, 64-bit implementation, TRIM support for third party Sandforce SSD's, and so on. Heck, even professional such as Annie Leibovitz has left Apple due its lack of professional level products over the past four years.
There's much more to Apple than iDevices, as great as they may be. iMac's, iPads, MacBooks - they don't replace the systems Apple has left that are necessary for our work.
*and before anyone states that Apple has made billions on iDevices and iOS, they certainly can take a small amount of that cash reserve and reinvest it into a much needed market, such as a mid-level tower that fits between the top level iMac and entry level Mac Pro for those of us who need 5+ tower's but now can't afford them since the Intel transition. Apple could easily restructure their professional focus with new project managers to give a much needed refresh of their high end niche, and they could easily make a profit from that market. They created/restructured a niche market with iDevices and made a killing, why not with their professional end products? There are thousands if not more of us who would gladly pony up and stick with Apple.
Nailed it
As for the sarcastic comment regarding someone not leaving Apple now before FCP is released, it's because leaving is a huge decision. We have lots of money, time and equipment invested in our work. It's not as simple as dropping everything you have used for many, many years and investing and training yourself for another platform.
Sorry, but I am tired of the new users brought in from iPhone's and iPods and MacBook's getting snarky with the professionals who carried Apple through tough times and rely on Apple's professional line for our work. First the dedicated ACD's are neglected and replaced with ONE 27" LED LCD panel from the 27" iMac, OS X Lion is morphing into an iOS GUI, the Xeon Server processors in the Mac Pro line that replaced the affordable PowerMac G4/5's are over priced and over powered for some of our needs, Xserve was dropped not due to less sales but less marketing and development due to Apple's focus on iDevices, less OS X development such as Resolution Independence, 64-bit implementation, TRIM support for third party Sandforce SSD's, and so on. Heck, even professional such as Annie Leibovitz has left Apple due its lack of professional level products over the past four years.
There's much more to Apple than iDevices, as great as they may be. iMac's, iPads, MacBooks - they don't replace the systems Apple has left that are necessary for our work.
*and before anyone states that Apple has made billions on iDevices and iOS, they certainly can take a small amount of that cash reserve and reinvest it into a much needed market, such as a mid-level tower that fits between the top level iMac and entry level Mac Pro for those of us who need 5+ tower's but now can't afford them since the Intel transition. Apple could easily restructure their professional focus with new project managers to give a much needed refresh of their high end niche, and they could easily make a profit from that market. They created/restructured a niche market with iDevices and made a killing, why not with their professional end products? There are thousands if not more of us who would gladly pony up and stick with Apple.
Nailed it
Keebler
Apr 10, 04:01 PM
i know i'll be hanging around my macs looking for internet news on Tuesday.
I do think it was a pr*ck move they pulled - one i would have expected from the microsoft of old holding everyone by the short n' curlys! :(
And, I didn't travel much, but did a few times and I know i wouldn't be happy if my trip to Vegas was suddenly cancelled b/c of showboating.
I worked for a software company years ago and those events were months, if not a full year's worth of planning, energy and sales forecasted. Such a crucial way for a company to interact with their users.
Let's hope the release justifies forcing the other sponsors to pull.
I do think it was a pr*ck move they pulled - one i would have expected from the microsoft of old holding everyone by the short n' curlys! :(
And, I didn't travel much, but did a few times and I know i wouldn't be happy if my trip to Vegas was suddenly cancelled b/c of showboating.
I worked for a software company years ago and those events were months, if not a full year's worth of planning, energy and sales forecasted. Such a crucial way for a company to interact with their users.
Let's hope the release justifies forcing the other sponsors to pull.
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