Gravitation
07-17 04:37 PM
http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_3269.html
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willIWill
04-30 05:43 PM
Yes one from Mother and one from Father.
You may find a sample by googling.
You may find a sample by googling.
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siravi
11-15 04:46 PM
yes he is Math teacher.
What is process of getting H1B. Is they are applicable for H1B or they need diff VISA. then what is the process of getting that. or if they are applicable for H1b then it is the same process as for S/W Prof.
sdudeja: I sent you PM, Please look it
Is any other thing which we need to take care about.
Thanks
I am a teacher at an NGO. I am not sure if I understood your question, but hope this helps,,,
First, you have to comply with the state procedures for teacher certification and eligibility. You need the work/H1B visa; the procedure is same as that for all other jobs. The school/orgaization should be ready/willing to sponsor one for a work visa.
sdudeja, nice to meet another teacher on the forum!
What is process of getting H1B. Is they are applicable for H1B or they need diff VISA. then what is the process of getting that. or if they are applicable for H1b then it is the same process as for S/W Prof.
sdudeja: I sent you PM, Please look it
Is any other thing which we need to take care about.
Thanks
I am a teacher at an NGO. I am not sure if I understood your question, but hope this helps,,,
First, you have to comply with the state procedures for teacher certification and eligibility. You need the work/H1B visa; the procedure is same as that for all other jobs. The school/orgaization should be ready/willing to sponsor one for a work visa.
sdudeja, nice to meet another teacher on the forum!
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Immigstories
01-15 09:18 AM
Gurus...please help me!!
Is it safe to travel with a new approved I797/I94 and use the unexpired H1B visa stamp associated with an old employer to re-enter the country?
Is it safe to travel with a new approved I797/I94 and use the unexpired H1B visa stamp associated with an old employer to re-enter the country?
more...
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Ruta
07-17 05:38 PM
Office of Communications
www.uscis.gov
July 17, 2007
Contact: Office of Communications
202-272-1200
USCIS Update
USCIS Announces Revised Processing Procedures for
Adjustment of Status Applications
WASHINGTON�U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced that,
beginning immediately, it will accept employment-based applications to adjust status (Form I-
485) filed by aliens whose priority dates are current under the July Visa Bulletin, No. 107.
USCIS will accept applications filed not later than August 17, 2007.
On July 2, 2007, USCIS announced that it would not accept any additional employment-based
applications to adjust status. USCIS made that announcement after receiving an update from the
Department of State that it would not authorize any additional employment-based visa numbers
for this fiscal year. After consulting with USCIS, the Department of State has advised that
Bulletin #107 (dated June 12) should be relied upon as the current July Visa Bulletin for
purposes of determining employment visa number availability, and that Visa Bulletin #108
(dated July 2) has been withdrawn.
�The public reaction to the July 2 announcement made it clear that the federal government�s
management of this process needs further review,� said Emilio Gonzalez, USCIS Director. �I
am committed to working with Congress and the State Department to implement a more efficient
system in line with public expectations.�
USCIS�s announcement today allows anyone who was eligible to apply under Visa Bulletin No.
107 a full month�s time to do so. Applications already properly filed with USCIS will also be
accepted. The current fee schedule will apply to all applications filed under Visa Bulletin No. 107
through August 17, 2007. (The new fee schedule that becomes effective on July 30, 2007, will
apply to all other applications filed on or after July 30, 2007).
-USCIS
www.uscis.gov
July 17, 2007
Contact: Office of Communications
202-272-1200
USCIS Update
USCIS Announces Revised Processing Procedures for
Adjustment of Status Applications
WASHINGTON�U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) announced that,
beginning immediately, it will accept employment-based applications to adjust status (Form I-
485) filed by aliens whose priority dates are current under the July Visa Bulletin, No. 107.
USCIS will accept applications filed not later than August 17, 2007.
On July 2, 2007, USCIS announced that it would not accept any additional employment-based
applications to adjust status. USCIS made that announcement after receiving an update from the
Department of State that it would not authorize any additional employment-based visa numbers
for this fiscal year. After consulting with USCIS, the Department of State has advised that
Bulletin #107 (dated June 12) should be relied upon as the current July Visa Bulletin for
purposes of determining employment visa number availability, and that Visa Bulletin #108
(dated July 2) has been withdrawn.
�The public reaction to the July 2 announcement made it clear that the federal government�s
management of this process needs further review,� said Emilio Gonzalez, USCIS Director. �I
am committed to working with Congress and the State Department to implement a more efficient
system in line with public expectations.�
USCIS�s announcement today allows anyone who was eligible to apply under Visa Bulletin No.
107 a full month�s time to do so. Applications already properly filed with USCIS will also be
accepted. The current fee schedule will apply to all applications filed under Visa Bulletin No. 107
through August 17, 2007. (The new fee schedule that becomes effective on July 30, 2007, will
apply to all other applications filed on or after July 30, 2007).
-USCIS
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ken
04-10 02:34 PM
Please update your profile with details so that it can be helpful to everyone tracking the success
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile
on IV tracker
http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_tracker&Itemid=63
IV members are requested to update their profile with valid dates so that we can make IV tracker helpful for everyone.
I have personally decided to make this request to everyone who does not have their details completed and only then respond to the member. If a member has bogus data in their profile for tracking purposes I would not be replying to that post. This might help encourage members wanting replies from IV core team for their questions.
Already updated my info, But not all, Also when i try to do some sort based on PD it is not working.
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/profile.php?do=editprofile
on IV tracker
http://immigrationvoice.org/index.php?option=com_tracker&Itemid=63
IV members are requested to update their profile with valid dates so that we can make IV tracker helpful for everyone.
I have personally decided to make this request to everyone who does not have their details completed and only then respond to the member. If a member has bogus data in their profile for tracking purposes I would not be replying to that post. This might help encourage members wanting replies from IV core team for their questions.
Already updated my info, But not all, Also when i try to do some sort based on PD it is not working.
more...
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krajani2007
08-15 03:18 PM
Unless:
i) Has company A paid you all your wages?
If there is a window when you were not paid, they wouldn't even think about suing you.Become a whistle blower, Complain to the DOL if you were not paid prevailing wages.
===> Since I am working on hourly basis, My wages are high compared to LCA wage. However I was not paid 3 weeks on Bench.
ii) Content of Non-Compete agreement:
If the Non-Compete agreement is overly restraining, it is not valid. Check the statements. If it says more than 2 years, and no geographical limits, it is not valid. Does it say you cannot join B or you cannot join any end-client ?
===> Contract says I cannot join clients client or End client , Direct or indriect. There is no geographical Limit and it is for 1 year.
iv) LCA for new work location:
If you work for more than 6 months in a county, new LCA should be applied for that location.
===> I guess the LCA is there as I am working for 3 years in the same area (Different County). I found both the projects myself.
Try to negotiate with A. Usually these lawsuits don't run their course.
Attorney fees are: minimum 2k just for consultation. 5k if A comes to negotiation after lawsuit. 10-15k if it goes to trial. So instead of paying the attorney , you could pay A and get away.
If all fails, You MUST consult an attorney.
IMHO, you should've consulted before you took the job.
===> Never realized that the clause existed until they mentioned (Working with same company for 4 years)
__________________
-------------------
Contributed $100.00
DC Rally
Labor Applied: June'08
i) Has company A paid you all your wages?
If there is a window when you were not paid, they wouldn't even think about suing you.Become a whistle blower, Complain to the DOL if you were not paid prevailing wages.
===> Since I am working on hourly basis, My wages are high compared to LCA wage. However I was not paid 3 weeks on Bench.
ii) Content of Non-Compete agreement:
If the Non-Compete agreement is overly restraining, it is not valid. Check the statements. If it says more than 2 years, and no geographical limits, it is not valid. Does it say you cannot join B or you cannot join any end-client ?
===> Contract says I cannot join clients client or End client , Direct or indriect. There is no geographical Limit and it is for 1 year.
iv) LCA for new work location:
If you work for more than 6 months in a county, new LCA should be applied for that location.
===> I guess the LCA is there as I am working for 3 years in the same area (Different County). I found both the projects myself.
Try to negotiate with A. Usually these lawsuits don't run their course.
Attorney fees are: minimum 2k just for consultation. 5k if A comes to negotiation after lawsuit. 10-15k if it goes to trial. So instead of paying the attorney , you could pay A and get away.
If all fails, You MUST consult an attorney.
IMHO, you should've consulted before you took the job.
===> Never realized that the clause existed until they mentioned (Working with same company for 4 years)
__________________
-------------------
Contributed $100.00
DC Rally
Labor Applied: June'08
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willgetgc2005
03-22 07:36 PM
Numbers USA cares about total number of immigrants per year.
If you move visa numbers from EB1, EB2 and EB3 to EB5 with fancy tactics like hard country quota(What Specter and Frist bills are doing), they dont really care.
They will be happy if the GRAND TOTAL of all greencards per year is brought down from number X to number Y. The grand total is a total of all Greencards: Family Based, Employment based, Diversity, Refugee etc.
--Jay.
IV is going full throttle despite all these depressing Immigration tactics being played out in Washington. IV is the beacon, to me atleast. Thanks guys for being so proactive and professional, not withstanding your regular jobs.
Pls see the link below. Even BIll Gates is asking for increase in H1 and not in Green cards (Last time he asked for GCs too) Every one wants cheap labor. They know people will wait for GC for 10 years. I guess creating a second class wannabe GCs is good for the industry.
We work hard in anticipation of GC
http://www.samachar.com/showurl.htm?rurl=http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1654992,0002.htm?headline=Bill~Gates~for~big~r aise~in~H-1B~visas
For all the hype about retaining skills here, wonder what is going on. It makes one wonder if this country is worth
it anymore. Seriously.
If you move visa numbers from EB1, EB2 and EB3 to EB5 with fancy tactics like hard country quota(What Specter and Frist bills are doing), they dont really care.
They will be happy if the GRAND TOTAL of all greencards per year is brought down from number X to number Y. The grand total is a total of all Greencards: Family Based, Employment based, Diversity, Refugee etc.
--Jay.
IV is going full throttle despite all these depressing Immigration tactics being played out in Washington. IV is the beacon, to me atleast. Thanks guys for being so proactive and professional, not withstanding your regular jobs.
Pls see the link below. Even BIll Gates is asking for increase in H1 and not in Green cards (Last time he asked for GCs too) Every one wants cheap labor. They know people will wait for GC for 10 years. I guess creating a second class wannabe GCs is good for the industry.
We work hard in anticipation of GC
http://www.samachar.com/showurl.htm?rurl=http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1654992,0002.htm?headline=Bill~Gates~for~big~r aise~in~H-1B~visas
For all the hype about retaining skills here, wonder what is going on. It makes one wonder if this country is worth
it anymore. Seriously.
more...
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bigboy007
02-25 10:13 PM
I laughed at it when i first saw this in OhLaw website. Any employee who thinks of AC21 job change would be in either of those buckets mentioned and conclusion is NO AC21 for EB employees if truely interpreted another scary tactic though.....
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luncheSpecials
03-14 09:57 AM
let them work .. now EB2 is current.. we all will get GC slowly
more...
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AbraKaDabra
12-21 12:31 PM
Flying thru Amsterdam and Milan doesn't require a transit visa
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centrum
10-28 10:23 AM
Important Visa and Immigration Documents (http://www.upenn.edu/oip/iss/visa/documents.html)
Is the statement under passport true? I still shouldn't have any problem right?
Can someone answer this please?
Is the statement under passport true? I still shouldn't have any problem right?
Can someone answer this please?
more...
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indrajal
11-02 12:11 PM
Call your employer and ask him for all these documents. These are agreements between your employer and client. He should have these.
thanks for the reply sir.
i am kinda confused since i dont work for a consultant , also my company dont have a fixed client.
I work for on an in-house project which sells services online to different people. We dont go out and sell it, we dont do custom softwares, we help people in doing their paperwork and charge a little fees.
in this case who is our vendor and client. i am assuming that the employer and petitioner is my boss but i dont know who would the other two be
thanks for the reply sir.
i am kinda confused since i dont work for a consultant , also my company dont have a fixed client.
I work for on an in-house project which sells services online to different people. We dont go out and sell it, we dont do custom softwares, we help people in doing their paperwork and charge a little fees.
in this case who is our vendor and client. i am assuming that the employer and petitioner is my boss but i dont know who would the other two be
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parvezns
01-17 07:36 PM
Hey All,
I am on H1B on Indian passport and my current H1B that is stamped on passport will expire on March 18, 2010.
Recently, I got my H1b visa extension until 2012.
I'm currently working for my end client "X" from last 2 years and H1b holder is company "Y".
I am planning to go to India first two weeks of February and return on 17th Feb from EWR and returning back to EWR.
I do hav an employment verification letter obtained from my manager at end client "X".
I am planning to do my visa stamping while in Mumbai. I have 4 questions :
1) Looking at the current scenario, where most of H1B stamping at Mumbai consulates are going through administrative process;
do you recommend me to go to Mumbai for new visa stamping ?
2) If I simply return on my current visa, will the officer at POE ask me - why I did not get new H1 stamped on passport when I have 30 days for current to expire ?
Any advice ????????
3) I have confirmed tickets for me, wife and kid to arrive at Newark. Do you guys think it is wise to change the aiport to some other airport ?
4) Do you think dropping the plans going to India is more feasible than dealing through points 1-3 above.
I need your advise as soon as you can. Please share with me your viewpoints in the best possible way.
I am on H1B on Indian passport and my current H1B that is stamped on passport will expire on March 18, 2010.
Recently, I got my H1b visa extension until 2012.
I'm currently working for my end client "X" from last 2 years and H1b holder is company "Y".
I am planning to go to India first two weeks of February and return on 17th Feb from EWR and returning back to EWR.
I do hav an employment verification letter obtained from my manager at end client "X".
I am planning to do my visa stamping while in Mumbai. I have 4 questions :
1) Looking at the current scenario, where most of H1B stamping at Mumbai consulates are going through administrative process;
do you recommend me to go to Mumbai for new visa stamping ?
2) If I simply return on my current visa, will the officer at POE ask me - why I did not get new H1 stamped on passport when I have 30 days for current to expire ?
Any advice ????????
3) I have confirmed tickets for me, wife and kid to arrive at Newark. Do you guys think it is wise to change the aiport to some other airport ?
4) Do you think dropping the plans going to India is more feasible than dealing through points 1-3 above.
I need your advise as soon as you can. Please share with me your viewpoints in the best possible way.
more...
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GC_Geek
10-01 05:52 PM
I already pllued all of my paperwork from attorney.
You must have at least a copy of all your filing paperwork from Labor Filing till today. This is required when you are filing anything new or responding any RFE, you sould match each and everything on the USCIS records when you are submitting any new paper work as a part of RFE/new application etc.
So, better have a copy of all paprework before..
I dont intend to change my employer/lawyer but just got all original approvals and copy of each and every paperwork from my attorney till date about my GC.. just to be safe..
I can pull out my G28 and be on my own at any time, but still save my ongoing pending petitions..
You must have at least a copy of all your filing paperwork from Labor Filing till today. This is required when you are filing anything new or responding any RFE, you sould match each and everything on the USCIS records when you are submitting any new paper work as a part of RFE/new application etc.
So, better have a copy of all paprework before..
I dont intend to change my employer/lawyer but just got all original approvals and copy of each and every paperwork from my attorney till date about my GC.. just to be safe..
I can pull out my G28 and be on my own at any time, but still save my ongoing pending petitions..
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karan2004m
12-01 03:46 PM
I have the exact same scenario :(
i don't think anyone would be able to use first EAD filed during July/Aug time frame as I-140 itself will take more than 1 yr.. or longer who knows...money wasted on EAD.
i don't think anyone would be able to use first EAD filed during July/Aug time frame as I-140 itself will take more than 1 yr.. or longer who knows...money wasted on EAD.
more...
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kirupa
08-20 06:25 PM
Cake - that is by design. Place the contents of your grid inside a ViewBox control (WPF only I believe). Once you have done that, you will see the contents of your grid scale as its height gets altered.
My earlier XAML snippet could be used when pasted between the <Window> tags. To try out what I just mentioned in this post, create a new WPF project called Animation and overwrite all of the XAML in Window1.xaml with the following:
<Window
xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/2006/xaml/presentation"
xmlns:x="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/2006/xaml"
x:Class="Animation.Window1"
x:Name="Window"
Title="Window1"
Width="640" Height="480">
<Window.Resources>
<Storyboard x:Key="Storyboard1">
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(FrameworkElement.Height)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="0"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid1" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(UIElement.RenderTransform).(TransformGroup.Childr en)[0].(ScaleTransform.ScaleY)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="2.93"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid1" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(UIElement.RenderTransform).(TransformGroup.Childr en)[3].(TranslateTransform.Y)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="96.5"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
</Storyboard>
</Window.Resources>
<Window.Triggers>
<EventTrigger RoutedEvent="FrameworkElement.Loaded">
<BeginStoryboard Storyboard="{StaticResource Storyboard1}"/>
</EventTrigger>
</Window.Triggers>
<Grid x:Name="LayoutRoot">
<StackPanel>
<Grid Height="100" Background="#FFF5FF00" x:Name="grid">
<Viewbox HorizontalAlignment="Left" Width="100">
<Button Content="Button"/>
</Viewbox>
</Grid>
<Grid Height="100" Background="#FF00B3FF" RenderTransformOrigin="0.5,0.5" x:Name="grid1">
<Grid.RenderTransform>
<TransformGroup>
<ScaleTransform ScaleX="1" ScaleY="1"/>
<SkewTransform AngleX="0" AngleY="0"/>
<RotateTransform Angle="0"/>
<TranslateTransform X="0" Y="0"/>
</TransformGroup>
</Grid.RenderTransform>
</Grid>
</StackPanel>
</Grid>
</Window>
:)
My earlier XAML snippet could be used when pasted between the <Window> tags. To try out what I just mentioned in this post, create a new WPF project called Animation and overwrite all of the XAML in Window1.xaml with the following:
<Window
xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/2006/xaml/presentation"
xmlns:x="http://schemas.microsoft.com/winfx/2006/xaml"
x:Class="Animation.Window1"
x:Name="Window"
Title="Window1"
Width="640" Height="480">
<Window.Resources>
<Storyboard x:Key="Storyboard1">
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(FrameworkElement.Height)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="0"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid1" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(UIElement.RenderTransform).(TransformGroup.Childr en)[0].(ScaleTransform.ScaleY)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="2.93"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
<DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames BeginTime="00:00:00" Storyboard.TargetName="grid1" Storyboard.TargetProperty="(UIElement.RenderTransform).(TransformGroup.Childr en)[3].(TranslateTransform.Y)">
<SplineDoubleKeyFrame KeyTime="00:00:00.5000000" Value="96.5"/>
</DoubleAnimationUsingKeyFrames>
</Storyboard>
</Window.Resources>
<Window.Triggers>
<EventTrigger RoutedEvent="FrameworkElement.Loaded">
<BeginStoryboard Storyboard="{StaticResource Storyboard1}"/>
</EventTrigger>
</Window.Triggers>
<Grid x:Name="LayoutRoot">
<StackPanel>
<Grid Height="100" Background="#FFF5FF00" x:Name="grid">
<Viewbox HorizontalAlignment="Left" Width="100">
<Button Content="Button"/>
</Viewbox>
</Grid>
<Grid Height="100" Background="#FF00B3FF" RenderTransformOrigin="0.5,0.5" x:Name="grid1">
<Grid.RenderTransform>
<TransformGroup>
<ScaleTransform ScaleX="1" ScaleY="1"/>
<SkewTransform AngleX="0" AngleY="0"/>
<RotateTransform Angle="0"/>
<TranslateTransform X="0" Y="0"/>
</TransformGroup>
</Grid.RenderTransform>
</Grid>
</StackPanel>
</Grid>
</Window>
:)
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akhilmahajan
07-30 07:56 PM
EAD is based on pending I-485 and for filing 485, you just need 140 received. So you are OK. My uunderstanding is you can also use AC21 portability after 180 days to change employers as long as your employer doesn't revoke your I-140. So there is that risk with I-140 not approved.
P.S my I-140 app is pending with TSC from May 2006. Almost 425 days plus and still no update/no RFE. Even upgraded it to PP on Jun 18th 2007 but still nothing.
Did you try to contact some one at the office. Mine is March 2007, but just reading your case, it gives me butterflies. I dont know whats going on and with all the 485 applications god knows whats going to happen. I hope u get it soon.
P.S my I-140 app is pending with TSC from May 2006. Almost 425 days plus and still no update/no RFE. Even upgraded it to PP on Jun 18th 2007 but still nothing.
Did you try to contact some one at the office. Mine is March 2007, but just reading your case, it gives me butterflies. I dont know whats going on and with all the 485 applications god knows whats going to happen. I hope u get it soon.
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ahnewGC
04-10 07:17 PM
Hi,
I got my H1 in 2004 thru an body shopper. I completed my first three year period. got next 3 yr extension recently. when would be right time to apply GC? what category is suggested EB2/EB3?
How long will it take to clear labour?
Thanks for valuable suggestions
I got my H1 in 2004 thru an body shopper. I completed my first three year period. got next 3 yr extension recently. when would be right time to apply GC? what category is suggested EB2/EB3?
How long will it take to clear labour?
Thanks for valuable suggestions
a_yaja
06-21 03:10 PM
Congratulations!!!!!
Would you plz confirm us on the Birth Certificate?
Me & my husband got our Birth Certificates in 2005 with all the correct birth details. Do you think we might still need affidavits for Late Registration of Birth?Please throw some light on this as there's lot of confusion going on this.
My BC was issued in 1980 and my DOB is 1974. However, my BC (issued by govt. of Mysore - Bangalore then was part of Mysore then) has a "registered" date as 1974. My lawyer said that since the registered date is 2 days after my birth, there is no problem with the BC.
Would you plz confirm us on the Birth Certificate?
Me & my husband got our Birth Certificates in 2005 with all the correct birth details. Do you think we might still need affidavits for Late Registration of Birth?Please throw some light on this as there's lot of confusion going on this.
My BC was issued in 1980 and my DOB is 1974. However, my BC (issued by govt. of Mysore - Bangalore then was part of Mysore then) has a "registered" date as 1974. My lawyer said that since the registered date is 2 days after my birth, there is no problem with the BC.
TUnlimited
11-03 09:23 PM
requested attorney's view he said he would prefer normal way as its better and i can see checks cashing and make that a proof of receipt in case of reciept notice lost
Sounds like that attorney is complete idiot and never went through eFile things him(her)self...
Because you paying with CC on eFile and they give you receipt for payment, receipt for filing right away and this is your evidence of reception. In other words, you know your case number from the moment you push the button and with eFile you wil not have such question - where to file. They will deal with that on their own. All other stuff, reception notice, FP appointment notice will come a bit later to address you wil put with forms.
Sounds like that attorney is complete idiot and never went through eFile things him(her)self...
Because you paying with CC on eFile and they give you receipt for payment, receipt for filing right away and this is your evidence of reception. In other words, you know your case number from the moment you push the button and with eFile you wil not have such question - where to file. They will deal with that on their own. All other stuff, reception notice, FP appointment notice will come a bit later to address you wil put with forms.
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